Joni Mitchell Said Madonna Was Like Roman Emperor Nero and Made Americans ‘Stupid and Shallow’
Both Joni Mitchell and Madonna are talented and successful women in the music industry. They’ve pushed boundaries with their work and have both achieved icon status. Mitchell is no fan of Madonna’s, though. In more than one interview, Mitchell has disparaged Madonna, calling her a terrible role model and likening her to the Roman Emperor Nero.
Joni Mitchell compared Madonna to Nero
In a 2010 interview, Mitchell spoke about the evolving nature of her writing. She admitted to becoming increasingly pessimistic about humanity as she aged, which came through in her songs.
“My first four albums covered the usual youth problems – looking for love in all the wrong places – while the next five are basically about being in your 30s,” she told the LA Times (via Digital Spy). “Things start losing their profundity; in middle-late age, you enter a tragedian period, realizing that the human animal isn’t changing for the better. In a way, I think I entered straight into my tragedian period, as my work is set against the stupid, destructive way we live on this planet.”
Mitchell believed Americans were getting stupider, a shift represented by the rise of Madonna. She compared her to Nero, who, as the expression goes, played the fiddle as Rome burned.
“Americans have decided to be stupid and shallow since 1980,” she said. “Madonna is like Nero; she marks the turning point.”
Joni Mitchell also said Madonna was a ‘terrible role model’
Mitchell’s feelings about Madonna were present long before 2010. When asked about Madonna as a feminist hero, Mitchell seemed skeptical.
“That’s an interesting idea, but what’s the difference between her and a hard hooker, you know? Who’s being exploited there?” she asked Rolling Stone in 1991. “She’s reveling in herself, too. But she can take it. I guess that’s what it is. It’s just being able to take it, you know.”
She saw Madonna as a bad role model, which was made worse by the fact that, in Mitchell’s eyes, Madonna saw herself as a good role model.
“Well, she’s a great ‘star.’ She’s got that whore-Madonna thing built in [laughs],” she said. “She’s like a living Barbie doll but a little bit on the blue side. There’s always been that type of female. There’s always been a market for it, but the danger is that she thinks she’s a role model. And it’s a terrible role model. It’s death to all things real.”
She said the younger artist might have an edge on her
While Mitchell didn’t think highly of Madonna, she admitted that she might have an edge on her in at least one way. When asked about Sinéad O’Connor, Michell said she appreciated the fact that O’Connor hated fame. Madonna didn’t seem to feel the same way.
“It’s a horrible job. People don’t realize how horrible it is,” she said. “Making music is great. The exploitation of it is horrible. And I think you’ve got to be hard as nails. Maybe that’s where Madonna has the edge on us. Maybe she doesn’t think it’s horrible.”
While Mitchell admired this on some level, she believed it came at a cost.
“I think it’s degrading, humiliating – so does Sinéad,” she said. “Whereas Madonna’s above being degraded or humiliated. She flirts with it. And perhaps that bravado is in some ways to be applauded; but at what cost to her soul, is my question.”
